D&D 5E How would YOU nerf the wizard? +

[Gammadoodler]

Come to think of it, why isn't a sickened wizard worse at casting spell?

Because sickened isn't a 5e condition ?

Otherwise, yeah, I'm with you.

 

[Chalice]

My preferred approach starts with fixing Fighters and other “martial” classes (i.e., by making them more capable, in specific ways).

But yes, in addition to that, I would also like to see: no cantrips, or at least not infinite cantrips; lower HP; broadly interruptible casting; having to learn spells from wherever they can (i.e., no automatic gaining of spells).

 

[Voadam]

Cuffing the Wizard does not, AFAIK, prevent spellcasting in any way.

I would think cuffing would make the hands not free to use for somatic components.

PH p. 263:

SOMATIC (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.

 

[Gammadoodler]

I would think cuffing would make the hands not free to use for somatic components.

PH p. 263:

SOMATIC (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.

I'd be inclined to agree..logically.

That said, I've never found anything that says that manacles (or any other equipment) actually prevent the use of your hands.

(And there are some interesting knock-on effects if we say that they do, like how a rogue could pick a set of manacles without having the free use of one of their hands)

 

[Remathilis]

Assuming I am tasked with keeping the wizard looking something like the wizard of yore, but with some more modern updates.

Classic wizards started out squishy and ended up gods. I don't think that is a good progression. A wizard should start out competent but not progress to utter insanity. Raise the floor, dramatically lower the ceiling. So, for me, calls to make wizards glass cannons are less appealing than keeping them viable but not dramatic. That said, I would want to change the ramp of magical scaling and effects. I would do this in a couple of ways.

1.) I retool magic to focus less on spike damage and more on consistent output. I would smooth outlier spells (fireball) and allow more interesting types of effects added to damage spells to make them viable. Fire applying burning, cold reducing speed, acid doing damage over time.
2.) I would adjust save-or-suck spells to be less encounter-ending. Yes, it's fun when the wizard shuts a fight down in one spell, but it also ruins tension and fun when a climatic encounter ends up a curb-stomp or a TPK.
3.) Higher level magic would not ratchet up so quick. I would carefully rebalance effects like flight, teleport, invisibility, divinations, and such to beter allow for martial or skill-based characters to shine. I don't want magic to be an "I win" button, but a tool to do things.
4.) I like the idea of moving certain spells to subclass-only. Give necromancers access to animate dead, illusionists to major image, transmuters to polymorph. Make the specialists feel unique and give them signature spells no other caster gets. The current design is basically "pick the best spells for each level" rather than go by theme and I'm tired of wizards all being 5-color goodstuff.
5.) Cantrips are fine, though some of the better ones should move to specialists.

 

[MuhVerisimilitude]

Assuming I am tasked with keeping the wizard looking something like the wizard of yore, but with some more modern updates.

Classic wizards started out squishy and ended up gods. I don't think that is a good progression. A wizard should start out competent but not progress to utter insanity. Raise the floor, dramatically lower the ceiling. So, for me, calls to make wizards glass cannons are less appealing than keeping them viable but not dramatic. That said, I would want to change the ramp of magical scaling and effects. I would do this in a couple of ways.

1.) I retool magic to focus less on spike damage and more on consistent output. I would smooth outlier spells (fireball) and allow more interesting types of effects added to damage spells to make them viable. Fire applying burning, cold reducing speed, acid doing damage over time.
2.) I would adjust save-or-suck spells to be less encounter-ending. Yes, it's fun when the wizard shuts a fight down in one spell, but it also ruins tension and fun when a climatic encounter ends up a curb-stomp or a TPK.
3.) Higher level magic would not ratchet up so quick. I would carefully rebalance effects like flight, teleport, invisibility, divinations, and such to beter allow for martial or skill-based characters to shine. I don't want magic to be an "I win" button, but a tool to do things.
4.) I like the idea of moving certain spells to subclass-only. Give necromancers access to animate dead, illusionists to major image, transmuters to polymorph. Make the specialists feel unique and give them signature spells no other caster gets. The current design is basically "pick the best spells for each level" rather than go by theme and I'm tired of wizards all being 5-color goodstuff.
5.) Cantrips are fine, though some of the better ones should move to specialists.

That's good! I also like the idea that spell slot progression is slower but starts with more slots. I think it's kinda silly that they start with only 2 slots but grow to 22. That's by a factor of ten!

Imo it would be nicer if it was from 5 slots to 15. That's a factor of 3 and it would make the first few levels feel less restricted too.

 

[BlackSeed_Vash]

• Can only learn random spells at each level up. The possible spell list expands as new spell levels become available. Just cause you hit 5th level wizard doesn't mean you're going to get a 3rd level spell.
• Cantrips don't scale with level, instead are available to upcast. OR Cantrips scale with level, but you have Intelligence modifier uses per Short/Long Rest.
• If a spell can be cast as a ritual, it must be prepared as either a regular spell or as a ritual. You may use two of your prepared spells to have it usable as both. When a spell is prepared as a ritual, you expends a use of the appropriate spell slot and do not regain that slot until the spell is removed from your prepared spell list.
• Remove sacred cows spells like Fireball which are more powerful then their fellow spells of similar level.
• Steal the Warhammer's scatter dice and apply to any AoE spell where the center is beyond 30ft from caster. Roll a d4 to see how many squares off their intended target they are.

 

[Undrave]

Hmmm....

I don’t know if I would call it a nerf but when it comes to 5e I always felt like the scope of things a Wizard can do was too big and the specialization too toothless resulting in their subclass being bland and uninteresting. I would cut down the number of spells automatically learned in half, you only get 1 spell whenever you gain one. This would have the effect of freeing up a power budget for the subclass to have more impact. Each subclass would then be free to grant you additional spells that fits the specialty of the subclass at whatever rhythm works for that specific concept. You want to be a Transmuter? Well, here is an extra transmutation spells whenever you gain a new spell, go be a transmuter!

Next, I would take out most effects that could be used by a Psionic class, including the entirety of the Enchanter mind control guy. People like Psionic so might as well give them a proper niche of their own.

Next, I would make 9th level spells be treasures. You can’t learn them naturally as you level up: they are legendary, secret, spells and you need to find them out in the world. Same for every casting class able to get them, really.

It’s honestly the biggest issues I have with the class, anything else is just small numeral tweaks to individual spells. I'm fine with Cantrips, and I find that any proposed nerfs either makes them boring, makes the wizard less magical (and thus boring), or too mechanically fiddly (I don't want to track the number of Cantrips I use that's dumb).

 

[Horwath]

Re: risk of failure.
1. Neither saves nor attack rolls apply to buff spells, heal spells, or quite a few environment manipulation type spells. Those can be executed perfectly..every time..everywhere.

why shouldn't they?

2. Perhaps there is a difference in narration, but I think there's a bit more. Typically attack roll that do not succeed result in a "miss". Saving throw spells are "resisted" (and typically deal 1/2 damage to the target regardless. In neither case do you see the caster fail to produce the desired spell effect, or risk any danger whatsoever in manipulating the fundamental elements of existence.

spell slots are limited resource, and on a miss/save they should do something.
also damage dealing wizard is just discount fighter, every DM would be happy beyond belief if every spellcaster would only take damaging and/or healing spells.

Re: Conditions and the wizard..
Cuffing the Wizard does not, AFAIK, prevent spellcasting in any way. Gagging them prevents 1 component, but not the 2 others, and is not a condition that is readily available through any ability in the PHB (maybe the monsters have it IDK?). Same with silence spell, but it is only applicable to caster-type creatures. So to fully prevent casting, they'd need to be gagged (or under the effects of a fairly uncommon spell), and bound in a way the rules do not describe.

disabling Verbal components removes about 90% of wizards spells and removing Somatic and Material removes also about 90%.

Compare this with the Frightened condition on martials (especially melee) where it, at a minimum, meaningfully debuffs attacks, but has the potential to wholesale prevent them from participating in the fight. Poisoned applies a debuff wizards can ignore by casting save or buff spells; Grappled and Restrained have zero impact upon casting; Prone doesn't either..etc. Some/most/all of these should impact caster effectiveness somehow. We can do better.

Sure, there is room to reduce power of offensive spells with certain conditions.

 

[Horwath]

I would think cuffing would make the hands not free to use for somatic components.

PH p. 263:

SOMATIC (S)
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.

this would be a good use of Sleight of hand skill.
are you agile enough to cast spells while being cuffed?