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What makes an TTRPG a "Narrative Game" (Daggerheart Discussion)
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 9330626" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>Okay so removing the blindly constraint. So if the players choose to go to the underdark, that sounds to me like a player decision that places the campaign in the underdark. A player decision that has such impact seems to fundamentally matter, at least on the surface.</p><p></p><p>Do you see why I assumed blindly making a choice was your initial intent? Because if we don’t, I don’t see how the above isn’t a fundamental choice that matters. </p><p></p><p>I think this is one place that I’m also not doing good at explaining. I wouldn’t refer to a hexcrawl as a sandbox. I would simply refer to it as a hexcrawl. When I say sandbox I mean something different. Typically a world with defined factions, with enough blanks where factions make moves alongside the PCs. </p><p></p><p>*I realize this is a narrower subset of sandbox than perhaps what it traditionally meant. </p><p></p><p>Then some elaboration on what you did mean would be helpful. </p><p></p><p>So in what I mean by sandbox that’s not really how it works. That’s probably a good part of the disconnect.</p><p></p><p>Okay. That’s helpful. Just to ensure I’m not confused, By nature you mean it’s nature in the sense of being designed with or without input from players?</p><p></p><p>This may very well be true in a trad sandbox, but I think there’s a mechanism that makes it untrue for the kind of sandbox I mean. But focused is a rather broad and generic word - so you probably mean focused in some particular way? So before I commit I’d be curious about focused in what way?</p><p></p><p>I’m not trying to prove you wrong. I’m trying to get to what you actually mean. </p><p></p><p>I can in my own words, but it’s obvious we aren’t using the same language. So I don’t think introducing alternate terms and definitions is going to help. At best we just start arguing over terms then. IMO. </p><p></p><p>I don’t know that it does in what you call a trad sandbox.</p><p></p><p> In the kind of sandbox I mean there’s a mechanism that works something like this. So if the PC backstory is, I want to kill my brothers killer, the PCs can focus their play on trying to do identify, find, and kill that man. </p><p></p><p>Consider the difference between a movie about such a theme and a procedural tv series containing such a theme. The movie is much more direct and to the point - which seems to match your notion of narrative play, but the procedural series still gets thise same elements and gets to resolution, it just typically does so over many episodes where the basic procedure is usually at the forefront and the elements about the brothers killer slowly drip in. This analogy highlights to me the differences well in sandbox as I mean and narrative play. </p><p></p><p>back to rpgs - Unless you mean focus to the exclusion of all else, then it seems obvious that the sandbox player initiated the idea of killing their brothers killer drove play toward that by asking NPCs they meet about him. Eventually the DM bites on that hook and provides additional details which then lets the process repeat until the player finally encounters their brothers killer.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 9330626, member: 6795602"] Okay so removing the blindly constraint. So if the players choose to go to the underdark, that sounds to me like a player decision that places the campaign in the underdark. A player decision that has such impact seems to fundamentally matter, at least on the surface. Do you see why I assumed blindly making a choice was your initial intent? Because if we don’t, I don’t see how the above isn’t a fundamental choice that matters. I think this is one place that I’m also not doing good at explaining. I wouldn’t refer to a hexcrawl as a sandbox. I would simply refer to it as a hexcrawl. When I say sandbox I mean something different. Typically a world with defined factions, with enough blanks where factions make moves alongside the PCs. *I realize this is a narrower subset of sandbox than perhaps what it traditionally meant. Then some elaboration on what you did mean would be helpful. So in what I mean by sandbox that’s not really how it works. That’s probably a good part of the disconnect. Okay. That’s helpful. Just to ensure I’m not confused, By nature you mean it’s nature in the sense of being designed with or without input from players? This may very well be true in a trad sandbox, but I think there’s a mechanism that makes it untrue for the kind of sandbox I mean. But focused is a rather broad and generic word - so you probably mean focused in some particular way? So before I commit I’d be curious about focused in what way? I’m not trying to prove you wrong. I’m trying to get to what you actually mean. I can in my own words, but it’s obvious we aren’t using the same language. So I don’t think introducing alternate terms and definitions is going to help. At best we just start arguing over terms then. IMO. I don’t know that it does in what you call a trad sandbox. In the kind of sandbox I mean there’s a mechanism that works something like this. So if the PC backstory is, I want to kill my brothers killer, the PCs can focus their play on trying to do identify, find, and kill that man. Consider the difference between a movie about such a theme and a procedural tv series containing such a theme. The movie is much more direct and to the point - which seems to match your notion of narrative play, but the procedural series still gets thise same elements and gets to resolution, it just typically does so over many episodes where the basic procedure is usually at the forefront and the elements about the brothers killer slowly drip in. This analogy highlights to me the differences well in sandbox as I mean and narrative play. back to rpgs - Unless you mean focus to the exclusion of all else, then it seems obvious that the sandbox player initiated the idea of killing their brothers killer drove play toward that by asking NPCs they meet about him. Eventually the DM bites on that hook and provides additional details which then lets the process repeat until the player finally encounters their brothers killer. [/QUOTE]
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