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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 9330804" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>Oooh! I want this!</p><p></p><p>Or, more specifically, I want martial characters to be able to do things like this. I have zero issue with a "warrior of the grave" who can speak with the dead or a "knight of fate" who can see the future. If our concept of Fighter is limited to "hit things good," then our Fighters will always be kind of one-note. I think there's a lot more potential diversity in there.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, you can. D&D's current martial model includes that possibility space (and peppers in dragons and demigods that you can headshot or whatever). The most skilled traumatized orphan in the world can be all sorts of Batman and doesn't even need to wait 'till 17th level because even at 5th level they're more skilled and deadly than 99% of the people on earth. </p><p></p><p>But it can be very limiting for martial characters. "Hit things good" sometimes feels like it's ALL a Fighter can do (and rogues have a similar "get big skill check" pigeonhole) And in a game that includes elements other than combat, it's often not enough. </p><p></p><p>So bring to me the tacticians that create illusions, the leaders that heal wounds with their voices, the rogues that use shadow magic, the warriors blessed by the gods. I mean, sure, keep the Champion and the Thief and your high skill check results and big damage nukes, if you'd like. It works, it's fine. But let's not assume that it's all a Fighter or a Rogue can be, because if we do that, we say things like the first quote above: that Fighter's can't speak with the dead or see the future (both things that Aeneas did, if I'm remembering right!). There's no in-genre reason for that to be the case. </p><p></p><p>Official D&D seems to be able to dip a toe into this (there's some supernatural fighters and rogues out there), but it seems hesitant, perhaps because earlier editions were hesitant. I'm with the OP in that I think there's a lot of untapped potential if you remove the assumption that "hit things good" is all a Fighter can be and that "be good at skill checks and sneak attack" is all a Rogue can be.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 9330804, member: 2067"] Oooh! I want this! Or, more specifically, I want martial characters to be able to do things like this. I have zero issue with a "warrior of the grave" who can speak with the dead or a "knight of fate" who can see the future. If our concept of Fighter is limited to "hit things good," then our Fighters will always be kind of one-note. I think there's a lot more potential diversity in there. I mean, you can. D&D's current martial model includes that possibility space (and peppers in dragons and demigods that you can headshot or whatever). The most skilled traumatized orphan in the world can be all sorts of Batman and doesn't even need to wait 'till 17th level because even at 5th level they're more skilled and deadly than 99% of the people on earth. But it can be very limiting for martial characters. "Hit things good" sometimes feels like it's ALL a Fighter can do (and rogues have a similar "get big skill check" pigeonhole) And in a game that includes elements other than combat, it's often not enough. So bring to me the tacticians that create illusions, the leaders that heal wounds with their voices, the rogues that use shadow magic, the warriors blessed by the gods. I mean, sure, keep the Champion and the Thief and your high skill check results and big damage nukes, if you'd like. It works, it's fine. But let's not assume that it's all a Fighter or a Rogue can be, because if we do that, we say things like the first quote above: that Fighter's can't speak with the dead or see the future (both things that Aeneas did, if I'm remembering right!). There's no in-genre reason for that to be the case. Official D&D seems to be able to dip a toe into this (there's some supernatural fighters and rogues out there), but it seems hesitant, perhaps because earlier editions were hesitant. I'm with the OP in that I think there's a lot of untapped potential if you remove the assumption that "hit things good" is all a Fighter can be and that "be good at skill checks and sneak attack" is all a Rogue can be. [/QUOTE]
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