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So you back up your claim that games need 1000 pages by pointing out that the ones you know of that have 1000 pages or more are still incomplete? It would seem that perhaps the volume of rules isn't the metric to measure a game as being complete in the way you're trying to. Also, I think the...

But all of this is wrong per my experience, and likely the experience of many others as well. I've played plenty of long campaigns that were very fun and satisfying with rules systems that you would label as incomplete for not being hundreds of pages. These games are not "limited toys" or...

I am not using red herrings or ad hominem attacks. I am citing the many RPGs that function and are not 1,000 pages. They exist as evidence that your claim is incorrect. Again, you may prefer that they have more rules, but you have not established... nor can you... that they need more rules...

The biggest fallacy is the claim that anything less than 1,000 page of rules is somehow insufficient for an RPG. We can show how this is false by presenting the majority of RPGs as evidence. It’s cool that you have that opinion, but that doesn’t make it fact. As has been pointed out several...

I have a problem with that phrase in a general sense. I feel like it creates a dichotomy where one shouldn’t exist. It’s not the absence of rules that empower the GM to make rulings… it’s the presence of rules. I want rules that are functional enough to give me a foundation so that I can use...

Yup, as @Grendel_Khan said above, they have a Havoc Engine SRD in the works.

It seems like a game that could be repurposed for a number of mission-based genres. It’ll be interesting to see what folks come up with.

There’s no need for 1,000 pages for a functional game that can provide more than one shots. You’re yanking our chain, right? This is like that time you said a GM needs to put in 10 hours of prep for every hour of play, right?

I don’t think they phrased it in the same way, but I do think the idea of a neutral arbiter is very much related to allowing the unwelcome to happen. Reaction rolls, random encounter rolls, morale rolls… all these things exist to give the system a say in what happens. It allows for the...

I think it's a relevant idea in that it's what the system is meant to do in many games. Allow some unwanted result, without there being anyone to "blame" for it. It's similar to the idea of disclaiming decision making. Let the system say what happens. This is what keeps it from the kind of...

But then what game doesn't include collaboration of some sort? I think writers' room implies a level of collaboration that is simply not present in most RPGs because they're games and many outcomes are left to some sort of chance.

Not to answer for @Manbearcat , but for me, I don't like the phrase because it reads like full on collaboration, where everyone agrees on how things go, and then that's what happens. But that's clearly not what's happening most of the time in Blades in the Dark, and most similar games. Things...

Okay… then what are the differences? I don’t think that’s what happens. When you’ve shared details about games you’ve played beyond D&D, folks tend to push back a bit because the description isn’t always complete, or the account is a bit unclear, so clarifying questions are needed. The worst...

It's always odd to see people who have different feelings about different types of games... and strong feelings at that... try to make a case that there's little difference between games.

It probably is a bit. I just think that when we downplay the game elements of an RPG, it becomes less of a game. And that’s not something I would prefer. It’s interesting to me when people advocate for less game… it’s just so different from what I want.

Sure, but what comes to my mind when that question is asked, is to imagine an EPG with little to no G. I think if we remove the game, then what we’re engaging in is collective storytelling. It’s no longer really a game. By contrast, if we increase the amount of game elements, I don’t think...

Without the G, what would we be doing? I think that's what comes to my mind on this topic.

No they don’t! :p

My most recent purchases are: Strata, a sourcebook for Spire- love this game so I wanted some additional material The Burning Wheel- I signed up to attend Burning Con in October, so I got a copy- looking forward to learning this Not exactly a recent purchase because I paid a while back, but...

@Retreater Talk to your players. Talk to your wife. Let them know the toll that gaming is taking on you, especially given the other stresses in your life. I think if you explain it to them, they'll all likely be a lot more sympathetic to the situation. And if it doesn't, then perhaps it will...